A special interview edition - Meeting with Dr. Chira Hongladarom

November 2000

One bright Saturday morning last month I had a chance to talk with Dr Chira Hongladarom - the Guru of Human Resources Management in Thailand. Currently, he is Associate Professor, Faculty of Economics at Thammasat University. Formerly, he was Associate Professor, Faculty of Economics at Thammasat University and the Founder and Executive Director of the Human Resource Institute (for 16 years), which is the leading Thailand Human Resource Development organization. Dr Chira specialises in Micro Economics, Economic Development, Applied Econometrics, Labor Economics, Human Resources Development Economics, Population Economics, Business Vision and Strategy. He also holds other key appointments such as Secretary-General, Foundation for International Human Resource Development, Chairman of Asia Pacific Consultants Ltd, Chairman of ASEAN-EC Management Board, Brunei, and Advisor to the ASEAN Department, Ministry of Foreign Affairs (in Human Resources). He also lectures at several Universities including the University of Washington and the University of California, (UCLA). Why is Dr Chira seen as a Guru? It is because he understands both worlds - that of both the Thai people and foreigners. I chatted with Dr Chira about cross-cultural dialogue between Thais and foreigners for a long time, and below I present excerpts from the interview. Kriengsak: First of all, let me get your perspective on the working relationships between Thais and foreigners. Dr.Chira: Thailand has a long history of working together with foreigners. In the old days, many foreigners came to Thailand offering expertise in the areas of engineering, architecture or other kinds of modern technologies. We learned much about modern technologies from them. It was a good working relationship for both sides. Several of those foreigners stayed in Thailand after their assignments and even changed their name to a Thai name. However, now it seems that there is a line separating foreigners and us. We should not be too negative about foreigners. Look at their strengths - they have collected and accumulated much knowledge and experience. The result is evidenced in the per capita income of many foreign countries. So, they obviously do many things right! When I analyze a situation I will look at the big picture first then go to the next micro levels. Do not look at one piece of the jigsaw and analyze it. That might cause a negative impression to foreigners. Kriengsak: You mentioned about the line between Thais and foreigners. I have noticed a remarkable "nationalism" fad in our society. Why do you think these is so much heat built up in the debate up at the moment? Dr Chira: I think the economic crisis has triggered many Thais to feel negative toward foreigners. We may perceive that they are the cause of this crisis. It may true in some part only, for example, Thailand's economic weaknesses may have been exploited in a new free-trade globalized world. But it's certainly not all true that foreigners caused the crisis. We are also part of the cause. We should look at the crisis as an opportunity to improve our efficiency. There are various categories of foreigners - there are good as well as bad. Thailand has to view the world as dynamic and not static. For example - look at how Globalization has changed the rules of the game. We also have to adapt to that change. We have to learn how to work and live with the world. We have to understand the international management approach and try to adapt it locally. However, we may not be able to copy all the contexts from international practices and implement them. The Western management approach has been researched and developed for hundreds of years. Universities in the West are like Think Tanks. We do not need to reinvent the wheel. If you look at successful policy makers in Thailand like Khun Anan Panyarachun (Former Prime Minister), Khun Sunya Thammasak (Former Prime Minister) and Dr. Puay Ungpakorn, they were all educated in the West. We must be realistic and take a medium path. Some Thais take sides and try to look nationalistic by labeling all foreigners as bad people. We have to look at both sides of the coin. We have to understand the difference between personal agendas and national agendas. In our society, we always mix these 2 agendas up. Thais are sometimes short-sighted. Our people have never really had to plan because we our security has always been assured. We survived with little effort. This caused us not to think enough. Kriengsak: I have been a fan of yours for sometime. I have noticed that you have also evolved over time - from the assertive idealist to the more pragmatic. What caused you to evolve like this?" Dr.Chira: I think there are several reasons. First of all, I have done a bit of self analysis. If my ego controlled me, people may not want to hear me. So, that's useless. As old Chinese say, ...the sharp of yourself ...even if you hide it, it still sharps... Secondly, I am surrounding with many good people who have good intentions toward me. They have been giving a lot of feedback to me. This feedback us straightforward and constructive - not sugar coated. Thirdly, I am not chasing for glory anymore - I have already earned it. I also learn by observing other people. Look at Khun Samak Soonthornwej, Khun Utai Pimjaichon. Both of them are good but sometimes too extreme and idealistic. They had the potential to go to the top but could not make it. They did not work out well. Another important skill is listening. I listen a lot. Senior management in Thailand does not like to listen. When they become the boss, they become obsessed with power. They think that the boss does not need to listen to subordinates. The boss just makes decisions without any proper systematic analytical skill. You look at the Director-Generals of many government departments; they don't even know that their customer is the people - that he is not their boss. This happens because of lack of knowledge. I did a lecture for top management in the Thai Airforce. They are listening well and understand who their customers are. They have fine-tuned their attitude towards their work. Not many big government department bosses are willing to learn about new management systems. We are able to know everything. But Thai society lacks a learning culture. We do not like to read, we do not like to attend seminars. We do not like to think out of the box. We do not like to challenge assumptions. Kriengsak: Dr.Chira, you are teaching in both worlds, both in the USA and in Thailand. What are the differences teaching in these 2 nations? The answer to this question can be applied to foreign bosses managing Thais as well. Dr.Chira: Regarding teaching and learning - I notice that Thais do not having a sense of enquiry. We do not like to interact - yet interaction can generate ideas. When I teach Thai students I allow sometime for them to get acquainted prior to encouraging interaction and participation. In the first 6-8 weeks, they are confused when I try to implement any sort of interactive learning. We need to hold their hands - encourage- allow some time - and reinforce and compliment any reaching out for teamwork and interaction. If you are an Expat working with Thais, you may allow the first 6 months for them to adapt to new working styles. Later, you can bring them up to the speed. Support, encourage and hold their hands. I have some suggestions to expats working in Thailand: Let Thai's know that, while working with them, they are gaining experience, new knowledge, and new skills The expat also needs to learn more about Thai Society, Thai People and view it as part of the picture. I suggest foreigners study the dimensions of culture. Read about Thai History of and of our military engagements in the past. Go to visit Ayudthaya, Sukothai or study history. Learn about our religion. Culture is the accumulation of a nation's experience. Digest it carefully. It will reflect Thai weaknesses in many aspects. Don't only focus on financial aspects. Study the unique Thai behavior. Of course there are also many different types of people in Thailand - just like your own country. Do not stereotype Thai people. For example those with low education up-country will have one attitude, educated Thais have another attitude and Government officers different again! The Embassy and Chamber of Commerce should coordinate together in organizing campaigns to encourage mutual interests between Thais and expats - the objective to try to boost the awareness of the social contribution of foreign investments to the country. The Embassy and Chamber of Commerce should also organize education programs for expats living in Thailand to provide a course of learning in Thai religion, Thai culture and Thai history. The expat also needs to commit to teaching and educating Thais on how to think. There is mutual benefit on both sides. This willingness needs to articulated clearly. In this way the Expat can create a learning environment for Thais. Kriengsak: That is a good point. Many expats come to Thailand and learn only the Thai language in order to communicate with locals. Dr.Chira: This is a good approach. There are some cross-cultural learning materials available in the market. But mostly, focus on Thai behavior... You may well fit the bill to start this approach in the future. I did it several times when I was young. I brought the Historian, Socialist and Culturist to educate foreigners. Then, the foreigners understand more about us. If not, some people might mislead... for example mai pen rai is often interpreted in the wrong context. The term actually reflects the surplus society of the past. We did have freedom and were blessed with rich natural resources then.. but we may not be so lucky in the future. In the old days, the environment created the behavior - so some now look down on a Thai as a lazy person with no commitment. Kriengsak: This is exactly as I mentioned in Thailand Tales in the month of March 1997. Dr Chira: I also have some suggestions for Thais as well. ...But we have to segment Thais into 3 groups. The first group is those who have less exposure to the foreigners. This group forms the mass majority of the population. Without the proper information, they may talk among themselves using their own assumptions. The second group is those who have exposure to the West via an overseas education. And the third group is those who do not study abroad but have moderate awareness of the Westerner by working closely with foreigners or just by having an interest in studying foreigners. The second and third group who are supposed to be open minded may need to assist the first group by educating and sharing their viewpoints to the first group. We may need to share them with more information and frequently enough to change their assumptions. If we do not share experiences, they create their own negative assumptions about foreigners. But it will take time and effort. These 2 groups will also act as the bridge to the foreigners in order to make them understand the Thai better. Kriengsak: It's my pleasure to have has such an enjoyable discussion with you. I am sure that the readers will learn a lot from your comments today. On behalf of Thailand Tales and our readers I would like to sincerely thank you for your contribution. Kriengsak Niratpattanasai DBS Thai Danu Bank, Bangkok, Thailand

...from Kriengsak Niratappanasai's Thailand Tales

Kriengsak Niratpattanasai Thai Danu Bank Bangkok Thailand

Kriengsak was one of the Asian Business Strategy & Street Intelligence Ezine's earliest columnists and continues to provide some of the most savvy advice on the Net on working in Thailand. His down to earth advice from years of working with falang and locals mixed with local folkstories continues to delight and inform. Click on Kriengsak's picture to learn more about our great friend and colleague.

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